Radio Interview with Cate Mackenzie
A radio interview with London’s based talk show host Cate Mackenzie.
You are with Cate Mackenzie on “Love in the Afternoon” I have the great pleasure to introduce Michael Jascz and he teaches the poetical tantra work of David Deida. He is a relationship coach and he’s going to talk to us about the three stages of relationship and understanding the masculine and feminine dynamic. And his website is www.DeidaCentral.com, so welcome Michael.
Michael: Thank you.
Cate: Michael, can I ask you what brought you into becoming a relationship coach and working with David Deida’s work?
Michael: What brought me to the work of David Deida, I think in a nutshell, I can say that I have a lifetime of failed relationships.
Cate: Right.
Michael: And I can give you the story behind that but we only have 15 minutes and I realize when I first heard him speak that he had certain keys for me that would take me out of the suffering. In fact now what I call my work and my website is called “Modern Intimacy – From Romantic Suffering to Real Love” Romantic suffering is such a huge pain on this planet. And I believe it contributes to political unrest, to social unrest and loss of productivity in the work place. How often have we met somebody who is an emotional wreck, going through a breakup, a divorce? Clearly, they are not living the deepest life they can. And that affects how they work and relate to others. You can see the influence of intimacy and romance are so much bigger than just what’s going on in our own local drama.
Cate: I’m so happy that we are talking to you because I feel that it is very important actually, exactly what you are saying.
Michael: To me it’s so important and I am compelled to share this information. I want to go to schools and colleges and I want to go to corporations and religious institutions, and just say “look, men and women are different.” By and large, they are wired differently, here are the differences. Here are the attractive differences. How can we use those differences to create more love? What do we do when we are working all day with someone where there’s polarity, attraction? This is the first time in the history of civilization, you have these giant buildings where you have men and women walking past each other, women wearing their perfume and high heels, and guys buttoned up, heading down this direction and that, in their masculine, with women who are in their masculine. When I say they are in their masculine, what I want to say is the business domain is a masculine reality. Women have a right to do this and that, of course women have the right to do that. But in the beginning, the men were in the fields. Killing the animals, so they could provide and protect, so the human species could continue. This is why they say men are so one-pointed. All day, he’s standing there with that spear, “don’t bother me, don’t talk to me. Hey! Got the deer!” The human species continues. Whereas the women, the women were multi-tasking. They were in the fields “oh, these leaves are medicinal, those plants are for food, those berries will be ripe in 2 weeks. We’ll come back in 13 days before the birds get here.”
“Oh, those shoes go on sale in 2 weeks. I’m coming back in 13 days to see if they are still here.” I mean, I’ve learned that women love shoes.
Cate: Yeah.
Michael: I have a pair of black shoes and brown shoes. I have a pair of sneakers and sandals and hiking boots and I’m so happy with my 5 pairs of shoes. A lot of women I meet would like to have many pairs of shoes and the heel this high and the buckle on the right side, and… it’s extraordinary. It used to be, why does it matter what shoes they wear? Well, it’s the shoe they are wearing that touches them, because the feminine is about color, texture and design. Mother earth.
These archetypes, I have learned so much. I have such a huge love and respect for women through studying the archetypes, simply mother earth and in western culture, god the father.
Beyond the blue skies, it’s dead. It’s this infinity of love, god the father, but it’s dead. There’s no oxygen, there’s no children, there’s no playgrounds, no movies, it’s dead. What have men been doing since the dawn of civilization? Facing their death. Dying for each other. What are men still doing? Willing to die for each other. How can I cheat death? You find more men involved in extreme sports. Doesn’t mean women can’t do everything men do.
Cate: Can I ask you about that warrior energy? What would be the positive way of channeling that? The fighting you know till death energy? The sword fighting, are ultimately war. What’s a positive way of channeling that kind of energy?
Michael: Well, in understanding the masculine and feminine, what is the nature of the masculine? When I say of this infinity of love, which is this stillness, this consciousness. When a man realizes that he has come here with a sense of purpose and a sense of mission, so many men and women today, and I’m going to break this up into men and women, because men can do what women do, women can do what men do, but. For instance Cate, I’m attracted to your voice. I feel an attraction.
Cate: How lovely.
Michael: I love your laughter.
Cate: Thank you so much.
But it would be different if you were a guy. I don’t want to necessarily go to JFK, get on a plane. Cate, I need to see the woman behind that laughter. But that’s the polarity. That’s the attraction.
Now, there’s a more corporate kind of laughter, but yours is a blooming, the feminine, aliveness. Right in the moment, I’m feeling your feminine.
Cate: Right.
Michael: Which actually draws me deeper into my masculine and appreciation of the feminine depth. The spirit of the feminine, and so, we are wired differently, and men need a sense of purpose. They need to have their mission. In ancient times, men, it’s almost like when you were born, the elders would say “he’s going to be a carpenter, he’s going to be a blacksmith” you knew what you were going to do. “Those two should get married when they are 16 and those 2 should live over here.” I mean. We trusted the village elders. So that’s gone.
But right now, one of the things that is really lacking from men is having a sense of purpose. What they are tending to do is seek a good life. They are seeking comfort. And their real sense of purpose is coming from seeking a great life. But who do we have to inspire us to a great life? We don’t have men circles, although I have started men’s groups all over the country. And, in Europe as well. And my men’s group here absolutely demands that I be accountable to do what I have come here to do. We don’t play, we don’t celebrate, it’s we are down to business. And tremendous amounts of love, but it’s fierce. These are the men I would face death with.
Now, with my women friends, I am interested in their job and I will listen a little bit. “Well, what’s going on in your relationship?” what’s keeping you from attracting the masculine element you want to enter your heart? To fill you, sexually, spiritually, mentally. Fill you with his deepest gifts of love, not only to serve you, but to serve all beings. And that’s part of this language of Modern Intimacy is that we need a new vocabulary, which is just so simple. I need you, you need me. We get involved. We choose to be together and we make a commitment not to each other but a commitment to love.
Cate: Can I ask you something, Michael, is that what I loved about, I have read quite a few of David’s books, and what I really loved and listened to as well, I loved the idea of honoring the feminine, the radiance in a woman and the color and the textures and the jewels and the sparkles and the man honoring his purpose and consciousness. And that dance between the two and how they invite each other to glow and flow. What I wanted to ask you as well is within that, in a context of a relationship between a man and woman. When you talk about intimate communion, having a relationship on a higher level, or at a level where each person is themselves, do they dance in between masculine and feminine, or do they stick with whether they are more masculine or feminine, if that makes sense.
Michael: The question certainly makes sense. Because, we have so little reference as to how to dance that dance, first of all, and painfully so for many of us, the people that we learn the most about intimacy from, the people we absorbed the most from were mom and dad. Or whoever were our primary caretakers. And if that wasn’t bad enough, and I don’t mean to offend anybody, if that wasn’t bad enough, you had school, you had religion, you had twisted goings-on in the media, that still are going on. “Booty call” I mean I look at that and that to me is a degradation of the feminine.
Cate: What’s “booty call”?
Michael: It’s sort of a rap saying, “Booty” is to have some sex. And shaking your “booty”. Now the feminine dance, the sacred movement, used to enchant, in some cultures, that movement was to enchant and actually initiate men, sexually. Seeing the divine in her. The way her body moves. So, getting back to this question, we have wound up going out and replicating behavior of mom and dad. Cate, have you been in a relationship, and are you in a relationship now?
Cate: Yes.
Michael: Ok, how long have you been in the relationship?
Cate: 7 months.
Michael: 7 months. Ok. Have you had at least 3 or 4 relationships since high school and the person you are seeing now?
C: I think 3 before this one.
Michael: And have you been disappointed at various times?
Cate: Probably.
M: Probably. Ok. Can you see where you in many ways, attracted someone who had certain qualities that are somewhat similar to the environment where you did not get the love that you needed from either mom or dad.
Cate: Yeah.
Michael: So almost all of us had that pattern. We don’t like to look at it. Because when we fall in love, it’s very chemical and the honeymoon starts and it doesn’t matter what they say or do, it’s just “oh, I’m so in love” and then one morning he says “em, well, your hair is not…”
Ugh, it’s over. The feminine according to these principles, grows by praise. The masculine grows by criticism. The moment a man says something unflattering about a feminine person’s physical appearance, that which is part of her shine, he’s in trouble.
Cate: the masculine grows by criticism, you say?
Michael: absolutely.
Cate: how fascinating is that? So, do you mean that when a woman criticizes her man, that is not totally detrimental, that’s an ok thing?
Michael: well, if you are in a relationship committed to love with your chosen partner, serve all beings, you trust that her feminine, her intuition is so much more developed than yours, that when she says something, “you know, I think that idea you had about building that addition on to the house doesn’t really makes sense” boy, you have just spent the last 6 months with the architect, working on the design, she has given her feedback, she’s basically signed off on it, and then from her feminine, she says “I don’t think this and that works”
And he’s like… Immediately he goes into reaction. Or collapse, even worse. Both are going to start the struggle. He’s in his feminine. The feminine is that spectrum and is intuitive. So what I have learned to do when I am in a relationship is when she makes a criticism and she’s 99% wrong, I look at the 1%.
Cate: A-ha.
M: So that she feels seen and heard and appreciated, so even if she’s 99.9999% wrong, I know there’s some truth, because I have learned that the feminine has an intuition that is far more developed than mine. And a nature, that’s as chaotic as the planet. And I’ve learned to love both of them.
Cate: that’s such a huge gift. To me personally, and I’m sure to all women out there. So I wanted to tell you, thank you so much Michael, for your gift to all the women listening, and I hope to all the men too. Bless you for that. That was absolutely delightful and I look forward to speaking to you again if that seems suitable for you.
Michael: well, it will absolutely be my pleasure and I would just like to close in saying the basis for this new language of relating, so much of it is contained in the basic principles of Modern Intimacy, which can be found just in the introduction in the book “The Way of the Superior Man”, which you can download the first couple chapters for free on deidacentral.com
Read the introduction. If it’s for you, you will never be the same.
Cate: brilliant. Well, bless you and thank you and we’ll talk again. Thank you Michael.
Michael: Thank you too.
